33 Responses to “OUTBID!”

1. egirl Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 03:49 PM

   I commend you for sticking to your guns. It can be hard when you think that this is going to be your house and what’s another 15K… I’m glad you realized that 15K is real money.

   It could be that they are still screwing with you… that there really is no other offer. If so, they are slime. Either way, this won’t be the house for you.

2. heathercoo Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 03:52 PM

   I agree with everything egirl said. Good for you guys for sticking with your original plan.

3. Monique Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 03:56 PM

   I really hope things do work out for you, but I wouldn’t be suprised if they did just try to pull a fast one on you. Afterall, they did try to counter you after you said you would not, then they accepted.

   Good Luck.

4. mihow Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:04 PM

   Apparently, in NJ, people can back out all the way up until the very end. During attorney review, people can back out. Nothing is binding up until money is exchanged. Sickening? Entirely. But, hey, that Jersey!

   This time, I bet they do have another offer, but I make the mistake regularly of taking people at their word. Their word meant nothing.

   Oh, also, in Jersey, I think they are given 7 days to accept or not. I wonder, however, if you can ask for less time since we don’t have a week to waste every time we make an offer.

   That’s one of the reasons I’m so damn mad, they wasted an ENTIRE week of our time. That’s unforgivable.

5. Jonathan Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:04 PM

   i sent toby info on a place that does short-term rentals in hoboken. its right off the path & free parking. my cousin is in a similar situation and moving in there next month.

   i’ve heard enough stories with people dealing with offer/counteroffer issues. you guys should just try to do a day of lowballing people… offering 15-50k under the asking price, and seeing if you can get them to settle somewhere below asking.

   its likely not going to work, but you’ll learn how to haggle better and detach yourself from the process. real estate agents work on commission… they’re not working for you, they’re working for them. an extra 15k on the sale is an extra $500 in each of their pockets ( buyer & seller )

   as much as home sellers can be awful, real estate agents are complete shit.

6. egirl Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:15 PM

   When we bought our house we only made our offer good until 9pm that evening, so we would know either way very quickly. It is a little brash, but we wanted to avoid exactly what you have had to endure.

   But if NJ rules are different, then it sounds like they could back out at any point until closing. That is crazy! They shouldn’t be able to toy with your lives like that- especially when it deals with housing and sometimes it can take months to close.

7. anne nahm Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:20 PM

   Sorry you got so jerked around.

8. Meredith Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:24 PM

   Why won’t the landlords let you stay longer? I need some enlightenment as we are about to renew our lease with them, or at least hoping we can renew it! ~M

9. mihow Says:
   April 9th, 2008 at 04:31 PM

   Actually, Meredith, they probably would if we beg them. I think TJ wants to avoid asking them for longer.

   So, if we do continue to rent, we’ll probably find another place around here that has outside access.

   I think you and Andy are OK. Don’t you worry.

10. misha Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 04:36 PM

    um, hi. I used to be a real estate agent. Many are shits, but some are not. Some advice: It sounds like you are working w/ many different realtors. I suggest working with just one if you happen you find one that you trust. They all have the same exact access to the same info – some search better than others so a computer savvy one is best. I prided my self on doing awesome searches – its amazing how a mistake made by someone entering the property on the MLS will leave it out of so many searches.

    If you are only working w/ one agent you will likely get better results. They will get a feel of what you like and try not to waste their’s, or your time. And if they have a heart they will work harder for you knowing that you trust them. Its a good feeling and it really does bring out the best in people. After working for a month w/ someone you either hate them and drop them or really want to find the perfect home for them. I have dropped a percentage off my profit in helping people negotiate. But I think I just like to please people too much. I was too nice and the clients were soo rude sometimes.

    I like that you are serious about not negotiating, but maybe you should. Buyers expect that. Just start lower and have a price set that you wont go beyond. Your realtor should help you with negotiating. I sucked ass at that – my serious weakness was negotiations – at point I just turned it over to my now ex husband. Everyone loved him and he was just great at negotiating, plus he spent 8 summers in mexico…

    Remember – the realtor wants to close the deal almost as bad as you. The rules there sound horrible. You should be able to write a contract that is binding and needs to accepted or rejected w/in 7 days and void if the inspection says the house needs repairs above a certain amount. I am not a lawyer but a contract is a contract as far as I am concerned. Just because the law Allows it does not mean that you have to. Not an expert but interpert that to mean that no one can back out after 30 days and the standard buying contract states a 30 day period. You really should be able to change that to 7 or whatever. Seems logical to me, but I am not a lawyer. My shrink says I have tangential thinking problems…ya think?

11. mihow Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 04:44 PM

    We really are working with only one agent. (We had one other one for an ENTIRELY different area). We’ve been with the same one for a while now. :[

    Also, I know my husband, he will not play that lowball negotiating game. And quite honestly, I don’t think I feel comfortable doing it either. :/

    I do appreciate the advice, however. I’m just so tired of this!

12. cefielder Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 05:41 PM

    I do know that if we had not stuck to our guns and we were in a situation like you were… every little thing that doesn’t go perfectly, I’d have a snarly comment under my breath about that extra 15 grand I paid.

    This sucks.

13. misha Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 06:26 PM

    I know the whole game of lowballing is stupid but most buyers have been though that and expect. It sounds like they are really in control based on the laws and I bet they like that feeling of control and expect people to grovel over $5,000 (an amount that neither party would once concede to over a $450,000 townhouse including each realtor giving up one percent!) It is just a game. Maybe you could make bets on what the ping back offer could be to make it more fun? I dont know, but I am sorry that you are feeling pressured to make such an important decision.

    Something I also highly advocated – for people to spend less and get a starter home (back then they REALLY should have listened, now dont know). I assume (heh) that you will have more income in 5 years and then you could look for a different one. On the average people move every 5 years…On the other hand I never moved (except after highschool) and it is nice to have friends I have known since pre-K.

14. Krissa Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 10:40 PM

    I am so sorry about the outbidding, sweetheart, and I don’t have much advice about what to do next although I REALLY liked the idea someone mentioned a few posts back about renting in the area you want to live in for a year. Seems like it’d be easier, if nothing else, to find the right place in your own time if you were already out of the city. That’s just me!

    I will tell you one tiny piece of advice that you might already have, from our admittedly much less traumatizing “first buyers!” experience last year.

    When we started house-hunting, my dad (a veteran of six! house-buys in the past 20 years) told us without reservation to find a realtor that WE like, and retain them as OUR realtor, and have them show us all the listings we were interested. That way, when we did finally start making offers/negotiating, we’d have someone whose entire “take” comes from us, not the sellers. His reasoning was that we needed someone acting in our interests, not the sellers’.

    Well, we didn’t take his advice – instead, we just worked with the seller’s realtor once we found a place we loved. It worked out fine, I mean, but I can’t help thinking that the people who dragged their feet would at least have been on the barking end of someone working for us!

    If that’s what you’re already doing, or you don’t like this idea (we didn’t, it seemed too fussy and complicated!) totally ignore me. I just thought my dad’s advice was sound and I’d pass it on.

15. Janejai Says:
    April 9th, 2008 at 11:38 PM

    michele,

    my old landlord says he has a 1 bedroom opening up. might not be ideal for you space wise, but he might consider subletting to you guys…it’s a really great building only 3 units, lorimer stop, and he lives upstairs with his wife and 2 yr old baby girl. email me if you want details.

16. Tanya Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 04:51 AM

    I really know how frustrated you must feel. I’m looking for a place to rent while I find a place to buy. My landlord wants to renovate my place and my lease is up – so I’ll be homeless in under three weeks. I really am at the end of my tether. House-hunting today just left me in (lots of) tears. I can only keep telling myself that if I keep hunting, the right place will come along in time. This is SUCH a lesson in patience and tolerance…

17. StFarmer Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 09:00 AM

    Hi Michele,

    Sorry to hear about the house hunting woes. My ex and I eventually gave up on finding a house and built one that we really wanted.

    Regarding negotiating – isn’t it supposed to be a buyer’s market right now?

18. mihow Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 09:16 AM

    Yes, StFarmer, it is supposed to be. But somehow NYC (and all neighboring areas) hasn’t really seen too much of a dip. I mean, there IS one, it’s just not nearly as bad as what’s happening everywhere else. Even DC has seen a drop.

    We talked about this last night with our friend, Gerry. We are not sure when or if it’ll effect NYC. I am guessing it will, but in what way and when is a question everyone seems very unsure of.

    Ugh, I really hate this. I wish we could just buy land and eventually build on it like you just said!

    (BTW, your car seat has been the saving grace through all of our driving around every weekend. Emory loves it. SO, thank you again. I think about you every time we go for a drive. :]

19. Gillian Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 09:22 AM

    I know you aren’t keen on it, but I’m another vote for lowballing. It worked for me – when I bought several years ago I offered low, they countered a little higher (but still under asking), and I accepted the counter. We’ll be selling our house in another year (fingers crossed that the market turns a bit in our favor!), and I know that we will probably counter virtually every offer we receive. I just expect that people will offer less than they’re willing to pay, just as I intend to list it for a little higher than I’d be willing to take. We’ll keep our negotiating range within 10% of the value of the home.

    The laws do sound awful in NJ. Here in NC I suppose you can pull out of a deal, but you lose your earnest money put down during the contract signing, which was several thousand dollars in my case.

    Good luck, to you and your other house hunting commentors. I had a tough enough time in NC – I can’t imagine doing this search in the New York area, where the market is so much tougher. Sticking to your guns will make the process last longer, but you’ll be so happy with yourself when it’s all over. And it will someday be all over! Who knows when, but someday!

    PS I advocate taking the kitty paw print with you.

20. Patty Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 11:29 AM

    You will probably shudder at the mere idea, but have you considered the North Shore of Staten Island? Lots of young families, fun restaurants, tons of parks, MUCH lower taxes than Jersey and lots easier to find big, older homes. I do’t know where your husband commutes to, but if it is lower Manhattan, the commute by boat is a breeze – literally in the summer! I am currently obsessed with this house: http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1177141

    Just a thought!

21. mihow Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 12:47 PM

    Patty, not shuddering. I shudder at the thought of paying 12 grand in annual property taxes. I shudder at living really close to Newark. I am just so frustrated.

    I’ll check it out for sure. (TJ works in SoHo).

    Also, you know, I feel sometimes that real estate agents around here don’t take people as seriously as they do most of their clientele who are forking up 700 plus thousand dollars to buy a place. Do you know what I mean? Most folks buying here are looking for houses a whole lot more expensive than we are. So, since the commission is going to be lower, I imagine we’re not the best most awesome clients.

    And that pisses me off.

22. StFarmer Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 01:04 PM

    re: the car seat. I’m glad you and Emory are getting use out of it!

23. Michele Chaves Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 01:13 PM

    I have to agree with the lowballing and negotiating. It is expected and really kind of necessary.

    I recently heard an interesting story on NPR, which I’m included a link to here. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89225406&sc=emaf

    It says that in an average market, people price their homes at about 12% more than they’ll accept, but in today’s market, they are seeing pricing set up to 33% higher. There is the expectation of negotiation and prices are set for that. I Look for houses that have been on the market for a long time. I think the longer it sits, the more realistic the seller becomes in terms of price.

    It does seem like a totally lame game we play to buy a house, but it is the game that is established and it probably isn’t going to change anytime soon.

24. newlywifed Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 02:48 PM

    It is actually incorrect to say that people can back out of the deal without consequence until the very end in NJ. It is true that anyone can back out during the attorney review period (which in NJ is 3 days), but most states have a similar provision.

    If someone backs out after the attorney review has ended, there can be significant consequences. You can in some situations block the sale to someone else, and force the sale through. In other situations, you are entitled to damages in some amount.

    At the end of the day, Real Estate is a dog eat dog area…people are ruthless. And the market demands what you pay for houses. I feel for you guys, it’s hard buying your first home. My advice would be not to take it personally. It’s hard, I know, but you can’t take every slight personally. Sellers are just trying to get the most money for their property (and I would be too, I guess) and buyers are trying to pay the least amount of money they can (which we certainly did).

    The thing is, you have to work to stay positive. Try accept that everyone is looking out for their own interest (which is in opposition to your own) and focus on what’s exciting and fun about buying your first home. Being mad or sad or throwing a pity party doesn’t get you anywhere but depressed right?

    Good Luck! Stay optimistic!

25. mihow Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 03:06 PM

    This wouldn’t bother me nearly as much as it does, and I’d roll with the punches as I have done before IF we had a place to live come July. THAT’S the part that stresses me out.

    And I stand corrected to something I said to Meredith yesterday. Even if we wanted to take this place back, our landlord won’t agree to it now. He has already lined up painters and potential renters. (I think he wants to charge more and make more.)

    We’re seriously are without a place to live in less than three months. That’s what’s bugging me so much.

26. mihow Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 04:03 PM

    Regarding the lowballing, etc. We have done that. I need to clear this up for sure. The particular house in question was listed at roughly 70 grand outside our price range. Our agent asked what we felt comfortable with. We told her, she said there’s no way they’re work with us on that amount. We knew that.

    Well, then we reworked our budget a bit, cut some things out and said that we could go 25 grand higher and that we wanted to make the offer EVEN if it was too low. (What do we have to lose?) She made the offer rather hesitantly, I might add. They sat on it and then accepted it. (Even though it was much lower than their asking price.)

    so, like I said, I’m not really surprised we lost it since someone came in closer, but I am upset that they sat on it for so long and that we didn’t know to give it an expiration date.

    We have offered less on the other two houses and are willing to negotiate. This particular house was kind of different since we were dating way, way outside our playground. If that makes any sense.

27. tobyjoe Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 04:16 PM

    Offering less than asking and haggling are different things, for sure. My approach is to decide the maximum amount I’d be willing to pay, and make an offer using that number. I asked our realtor to let the sellers know that it’s the max. No haggling. If folks are in it for the game, I don’t want to deal with them.

    If they like they number, they can accept. If not, decline. Just don’t accept and stall in hopes of another open house leading to a higher offer.

28. Jonathan Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 04:36 PM

    TobyJoe-

    But sellers are expecting 99% of people to say “that is as high as we can go” as part of a haggle.

    They listed the house at 500k It was worth 400k You offered 450k as your real max They took that 450 and used it to leverage up someone who claimed 450 was the max up to 475/500.

    Few people will do a take-it/leave-it. When you walk away, they expect you to come back and bid up a bit… they probably accepted when they realized you were serious, but their agent pressured someone else by saying “This is going to close tomorrow at this price… they’re at the max… you can get it for __“

    Its just the agents driving prices up. The world would be so much better without them.

29. Brad R Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 04:39 PM

    Hey M—if it makes you feel any better (misery & company and all that), I just heard that our buyer was declined by the board of the bldg. So looks like L will be nine months pregnant and climbing to the fifth floor in New York July heat. Plus we get to reexperience the excruciating thrill of open houses once more.

    Can’t catch a break.

    Feeling your pain.

    B.

30. mj Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 05:03 PM

    My bf and I recently made an offer on a place in the Boston-area and were told by our buyer’s agent to put a time stipulation on the offer. The seller was to review the offers at 4:00 PM and had until 9:00 PM to deliver a verdict to us or our offer was off the table.

31. tobyjoe Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 05:39 PM

    We’re trapped in a delusional world of the perma-sellers’ market.

    It’s retarded.

    I hope the economy falls out so it crushes the NYC market. Needs to be purged.

32. sally Says:
    April 10th, 2008 at 08:19 PM

    Can you find a short term lease, say 6-months? I know it is a huge pain to move that often but it would at least give you more time to look than to have to be under this current scenario of “must find something”.

33. Sarah Says:
    April 11th, 2008 at 08:46 AM

    I’m so sorry you are experiencing all this stress! It is scary.

    When I was house-hunting I had one realtor who was great and he took me tirelessly to many, many places. There was only one I wanted, and I was outbid. Then my father found my current house on Craig’s List of all places, sell-by-owner. I still used my realtor to finalize everything, and here we are.

    I think you should give up on Jersey…and move to Philadelphia! :-) Sorry..couldn’t resist. But seriously? If you have nowhere to live come July, you can stay with me. xo

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